Mac vs. PC: 23 Years Later
Jan 25th, 2007 by Fred Davis
It was deja vu all over again. For the umpteenth time since 1984 I participated in a Mac vs. PC debate.
The good news? Although the topic was tired to the point of narcolepsy, it was actually a lot of fun.
The secret of waking up this worn out debate was the setting and the seated. The setting was Half Moon Bay, in the HDTV-dominated living room of uber-blogger Robert Scoble, and his uber-nice wife, Maryam. Robert just made #9 on the Forbes List of Internet Celebrities… even though their tribute to him was riddled with inaccuracies. You rock, Scoble!
Filling out the other seats were Harry McCracken, the 
esteemed Editor in Chief of PC World, Jeremy Toeman whose blog Live Digitally recently featured the best says-it-all worth-a-thousand-words picture of the RIAA booth at CES, and Sam Levin, a true Mac diehard who used to work on my old magazine, MacUser.
The official topic was Windows Vista vs. Mac OSX, but with that many excited geeks in one room the topic couldn’t help jumping here and there and back again. Robert, true to form, was taping the discussion for PodTech. And who better to keep us focused on Vista than Scoble, the ex-MS Longhorn evangelist. Surprisingly, Harry uses both a PC and a Mac every day – his interpretation of PC World is about P meaning personal more than a specific 
platform.
Jeremy was the most PC-centric participant, and had some great insights into how the diversity of the PC platform is a real advantage over the Mac. Sam, toting a slick custom top-of-the-line MacBook Pro, did a good job of representing the Mac faithful.
You’ll be able to see the whole debate soon on PodTech, which is going to post it to coincide with the public release of Vista. The consensus on Vista was that it had a lot of nice stuff on the back-end, but the front-end was just OK — and obviously borrows a lot of stuff from OSX. And OSX has been taking 
some clues from Windows as well. It’s a definite case of two students copying each other’s homework.
My thoughts: The whole Mac vs. PC debate is less relevant today than it was in the past. Why? Because the computing platform of the 21st century is not the Mac or the PC – it’s the Internet. Operating systems just aren’t as important as they used to be.
[...] Davis. Co-founder of Wired Magazine. Here’s his report of the evening. Sam Levin. Co-founder of the Stanford Mac user’s group, and the guy who does Cool Mac Picks. [...]
I totally agree that the OS is becoming less of an issue. However, security is now the driving force behind my choice of platform, which is where Mac OS X (currently) excels over the competition when everything else is totalled up.
Use and MAC and then use a PC. Which one did you like the most? Thats the best computer for you.
I have used both computer quite a lot and I have my preference
During 1987 I was on the MAC-Windows devised camp using a Commodore Amiga 500. After that I have changed to PC-Windows up to the XP version. Windows XP I believe will be the last of my PC OS that I am going to have. All this digital rights management builted in the VISTA plus built in spyware in the IE7 that monitors which sites you visit, this tells me that it is time to move on Linux based PC. As for MAC in never real liked the absence of SW & games.
Mac sucks
“OS’s aren’t as important as they were.”
Rubbish! They are now more important than ever with the advent of the internet, because of….. SECURITY!
With botnets controlled by criminals amounting to up to 25% of (Windows) computers this is a threat to us all.* It’s also a threat to our sanity with the mountains of spam we deal with.
The time is coming when Windows will need to be made illegal if Microsoft can’t fix what is a badly broken product.
Stop making apologies for Microsoft.
* http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6298641.stm
Get out more you bunch of saddos!!!!
“My thoughts: The whole Mac vs. PC debate is less relevant today than it was in the past. Why? Because the computing platform of the 21st century is not the Mac or the PC… it’s the internet. Operating systems just aren’t as important as they used to be”
An interesting take on the life long debate, I’d say that probably mirrors my view on the subject as well.
(If it matters, I use both OSX and Windows XP at work and I find them strong in different fields, however, I opt to use OS X at home, and so does my partner)
I agree, the whole PC vs MAC debate is very tired nowadays.
Of far, far more importance is whether the Starship Enterprise could beat a Star Destroyer in a one-on-one fight
Lee.
PS. I found you blog very interesting, ty.
Certainly looking forward to the podcast
chris
chris @ rawstylus.wordpress.com
Forget the whizz kids at the meeting who can afford all the latest gizmos, look at what ordinary folk get along with. You can’t help but notice that the more fashion conscious the user, the more likely they are to be a Mac user. Even my mum ‘has’ to have a Mac ‘cos she works on the fringes of the entertainment industry and everyone wants to make out they are a ‘Creative’. 19 out of 20 users have grown up with a PC platform. Using a Mac in this day and age is like writing memos in Latin. International, sophisticated maybe, but so insular. I can get a functional reliable laptop for under 300 quid at PC world, how much is a Powerbook? If you want to pay more for looks, make it your own problem
How true. Every day I realise that the features my browser supports are more important than what my OS can do.
I’ve been a designer for 19 years, 17 years on a Mac, 2 years on a PC(dark time in my career) nuff said…
As a independent contractor in San Francisco I am seeing more and more software being developed on the Mac.
Now you may say that developers are a very small % of the actual population who own a computer. However this is a small % with extremely deep pockets and a desire to have the latest and greatest to work on. They upgrade their hardware on a much regular basis than the average person and spend a lot more money.
Yawn, who cares PC v Mac, why all this divide and rule. It’s about time that all software, games, applications,…. will work on any device, I don’t care what the OS is I use applications, the OS is just a means to and end, Windows or Mac OS have never even added 10 + 10.
The same is true for HD DVD I don’t care which, just supply a system that works and stop confusing me, life is to short
[...] Davis. Co-founder of Wired Magazine. Here’s his report of the evening. Sam Levin. Co-founder of the Stanford Mac user’s group, and the guy who does Cool Mac Picks. [...]
It is such a relief to get away from the Mac/Windows debate with the cool apps now sitting on the internet. But I’ll always be a Mac fan and never understand the appeal of Windows. For me, it’s a bit like buildings and work spaces; do you want to work in a dowdy, grey, drab un-inspiring space, or somewhere that welcomes you and motivates you and makes your day a pleasure?
It is odd how you read “Mac sucks” many times, but it is rare to get a “Windows sucks” comment. This could be because all Mac users are living a lie, or, more likely, most Windows users just haven’t grown up.
I think there is good reason for the debate, however. In 2001 I said I’d never buy a Mac – for what reason, I did not write – but I just ordered my second Mac yesterday. Opinions change.
Everybody is different though and entitled to their own opinion. I often refer to one of my grandfather’s favourite quotes.
“The quickest route when driving, is the route the driver knows.”
The question isn’t PC vs Mac, it’s not even a question of Windows vs Mac, it’s a question of whether or not you value your freedom to use your computer.
Windows Vista and Mac OS X both take away essential freedoms for computer users, leaving users forced to rely on one vendor for support, and forced to put up with Digital Restrictions Management.
There’s another way, a free way to use your computer and to maintain an ethical choice for computing. It’s called gNewSense, you can download it at http://www.gnewsense.org/ - it’s a variant of the GNU/Linux operating system.
Give up on Vista - show Microsoft that Vista is bad. This is not the time for ‘Wow’, but the time for ‘No thanks’
Markfarlan Mcfern said “Mac sucks”… as does the level of your intelligence.
I wonder with the release of “Vista” will we have our first “Vista Virus”?
I cant help but contradict myself but i use windows more than a mac but i dont like windows at all, applications constantly crash, bugs bugs and more bugs are fixed by patches which also have bugs, while security breaches are all to common.
I use a mac for hosting and would use it more if i had it at work. If we all started the unix way, life would be so much simpler.
My first computer was a PC (Sony Vaio Laptop 2002 vin.) I really like the sony products , they make good stuff.
But one of my pc mentors who is a media arts major, switched to a Mac and told me to do the same, I was hesitant at first, all my other PC devoted freinds told me not to bother. They said that I would not be able to do anything with a mac. Well I did switch and I have never been happier.
But it is true there is alot I have not been able to do with my new Intel core duo II , Imac 20″. Like not having to constantly remove spyware and bots , and constantly reformatting my harddrive and constantly uploading antivirus updates 2 times a day. And constantly recovering from crashes and dealing with sleazy “Free ware” dealers whom we all know 90% of them put spyware and other junk on your computer, if you can even get the ‘PC free ware to work!. No ,no , no my little narrow minded pc freinds, MAC’s just work and so does their software, and support.
Yes they do cost a little bit more, what do you want ,,,all your software to be made in China? You want a next to freebie computer?,,,get a pc.
What I have noticed is that most comments come from mac users!. Pc users carry on with pc’s , ignorence is bliss.
This is lame and you guys know it.
OS X is only secure because it’s a niche product. A boutique product which has yet to garner enough market share to make creating trojans and other exploits worth the while of the undernet. Windows is de facto- and looks to stay that way for at least the next ten years. It is easy to use, you are not locked into your vendor (which always frustrated me about Apple- they invented the backplane and then let x86 machines steal the march by dumping it!), and everyone knows how to use Windows. You might not like it, but really lambasting Microsoft for essentially not having pre-cognitive abilities and flawless coding is ridiculous. There are loopholes and backdoors in OS X as much as there is in XP or Vista- it’s just that they have not been exploited yet.
For all the Macheads do I need to remind you that Microsoft is the only reason Apple is still going. When Jobs returned he used Microsoft funding to keep Apple for collapsing, which was the SMART thing to do.
The thing with OS X and Vista/XP is that they are really aimed at different markets. It’s like comparing Hush Puppies leather shoes with Nike trainers- they bare passing similarity of function (keeping you feet warm) but are used for different things.
Windows is not as insecure or as troublesome as some find as long as you use you brain and do not just install any old crap on it. You won’t let anyone into your house unsupervised just because they promise you a free cookie so why do you let them into your computer?
If you forget IE- which is again a victim of being the market leader- and use Opera or Firefox most of the problems with XP disappear- and I’m sure they will with Vista.
OS X is designed for those who don’t really want to play with their computer but want to browse the internet, edit photos, play music and movies- so if I was recommending an operating system to someone who had never used any computer I would recommend it that over Windows hands down.
I also think a lot of Windows ills come from the high-street vendors. Companies like HP and Dell pile absolute crap into the build and completely castrate it as a stable platform.
My only problem with Microsoft is that it acts unilaterally as opposed to co-operatively with the community- and the recent whisperings from Redmond mean that could change.
As for BotNets- the problem there lies between the keyboard and chair. I think if your computer is found to be part of one you should have your ISP account suspended until you learn to actually stop disabling the DEFAULT settings on your OS.
What would Windows (any version) look like without the existence of Apple? How much would Apple hardware/software cost without the existence of MS? The lunacy of the PC vs. Mac debate lies in the belief that we’d be better off with one or the other. Nonsense! MS’ mediocre products and efforts to kill competition at every turn have jeopardized America’s standing in personal computing the way Detroit’s myopia resulted in crappy, gas-guzzling cars that paved the way for the Japanese invasion.
Apple’s greed, incompetence and arrogance in the 90s nearly killed all hopes of user choice. The Jobs/NeXT infusion, accompanied by the arrival of open source provided new hope. But MS’ MO has been to kill Java, kill Netscape, kill open document standards, in the name of securing their markets, which I guess is what any self-respecting bloodthirsty company would do.
The future of computing can’t be controlled by any one company or OS, MS or Apple. It’s an invitation for mediocrity and atrophy. This either/or argument needs to be retired once and for all and a more open, standards-based platform discussion that allows more players in the game is critical.
In response to the common posts regarding virus, trojans, spyware and botnets.
I run a small business with about 10 PC’s on XP - all continually connected to the ‘net and we send and recieve 1000’s of mails a week - guess what?? We follow the very simple Microsoft instructions, use quality anti-everything software and have upto date patches automatically downloaded - we have NEVER had an incident on Windows since W2K.
I agree W9x was a dog when it was internet connected, but it was never designed for the internet age.
Todays XP is rock solid a with a few simple precautions - I am not comparing it with Mac or Linux as I have no experience of either - but in absolute rather than realtive terms it is 100% safe, usable and has application base which I need for my business.
Sure that there are plenty of you out there who will always want to fiddle around make comparisons but please remember the millions of us out there who just want to use our PC’s for business - for me Microsoft really delivers.
PC - Quanity
MAC - Quality
Well, once again, I read here that old saw about Bill Gates’s money “saving” Apple. Actually, Gates had purchased $150 Million of non-voting Apple stock as a symbolic gesture. He also, at that time, made an agreement to continue Microsoft Office development for the Mac. What he didn’t mention at the time was that in conjuction with these announcements (sheer coincidence, right?), Apple dropped their major lawsuit against Microsoft for stealing over 200 patents from Apple in their Windows OS, a suit that had the folks at Redmond dead to rights.
Anyway, Gates later on sold his stock in Apple, made a tidy profit, and Jobs went on to develop the iMac (remember Michael Dell’s amusement at a machine that didn’t have a floppy drive?), the G4, G5, OS X, iLife, etc etc.
OSX has no real viruses not because of it’s market share, but because it doesn’t have more holes in it than swiss cheese. The hardware and software are tightly intertwined, unlike you know who’s OS.
Also, if you were a hacker striving for a reputation in the hacking world, what good would it do you to come up with the umpteenth ziollionth Windows virus. But to create the first successful Mac Virus? Ahhh…you’d be a legend among hackers.
-=-Ron-=-
Oh yeah, in response to all of the “Mac Sucks” folks out there — if Microsoft manufactured vacuum cleaners, they would be the only products they made that didn’t suck…
Panos wrote: “As for MAC in [sic] never real liked the absence of SW & games.”
http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx
Mac never has been a platform for “serious” gamers (usually meaning those who have nothing better to do with their time than sit in front of a computer screen playing games all day & night). But there is no scarcity of superior software for the Mac OS X platform (including the Mac version of MS Office, which is in many ways superior to the Windows version). You won’t find much Mac software in your local PC store - but Mac users tend to buy their software online. The “absence” of SW on the Mac is a groundless myth.
“The Computing platform of the 21st Century is the internet”…if you believe in chaos and string theory yes the internet fits in there somewhere, but if you have a more logical and ordered mind the internet is a long way off from being that. Too much bad information and old inaccurate information…it is a means and not an end. I recently switched to a Mac from a PC the difference was sublime, the next day I went into work (top 50 Fortune company) and they use PCs (this being the downside of Mac - no real mass networking capability and support model), but twenty minutes later my profile was still being built and the PC was languishing (dual core processor top of the line etc). So the winner for me is the OS and the Mac, until there is order on the Net and someone/somebody can monitor it efficiently and effectively it will only be of use for certain things.
I have used Apple computers and PCs for different tasks.
This Mac V PC debate is totally obselete, pick a machine and software that meets your needs otherwise you are wasting time and money.
As it now appears to be possible to have a dual boot computer with Mac OS and Windows or lInux or Ubuntu my next PC is going to be at least dual boot.
You can get a PC at Aaron’s Rent A Centers - what class.
Sorry but there is no option, if you want an o/s that runs all you want and also allows you to play games when you want ( no I am not some sad gamer glued to a screen! ) then it just is not practical to use OSX or Linux.
I have been using a pc for 13+ years and have simply stuck to microsoft as I have moved up from DOS 3.3 . I have no intention of changing to linux or OSX as my PC works fine and I have never had an issue with virus or spyware as I follow simple security precautions.
I build my own machines and I would never buy from dell or somebody as I like to have the specifications exactly how II want them and as far as is possible to be upgradeable
this said I have NO intention of following the Vista route at present as it is simply too costly and because I dont want the stupid DRM platform they have installed . I rarely copy and DVD’s and if I do it is not to resell and I never buy pirated s/w or movies but I do not want to have my own computer locked away from me!
also - come on guys it’s time to stop doing the same pathetic MS/OSX/Apple bashing rubbish as this is just so pointless, everybody uses their computer in a different way and if it works for them then that’s fine and everybody has a right to an opinion
[...] Fred Davis. Co-founder of Wired Magazine. Here’s his report of the evening. [...]
When it comes to Mac OS X vs Windows I’d definitely go with OS X. However, if it were Windows Vs. Anything I’d probably go with anything but windows.
This will piss off the Windows devotees out there but OS X is not about ‘Fashion’ or whatever lame excuse you want to come up with. OS X is about a great OS that actually works and offers a great user interface experience. If you are a Windows diehard and don’t get it then you never will get it.
The windows diehards remind me of ford or GM customers. They still think their cars are American and still think they are better than anything else out there…whatever.
I don’t do the Linux Vs OS X debate since I appreciate all those Linux users out there who have the kahonies to swim against the windows tide.
As far as Mac Vs PC that debate doesn’t make much sense since a Mac is a Personal Computer and now Macs come in the new Intel favor as well.
Thank you very much.
Macs are poorly built and very fragile unfortunately, I have a broken iBook G4 and a dead Imac G5 which shuts down randomly.
Fortunately I also have monster gaming Windows machine which goes like a train. No contest.
Dudes! This is a totally pointless arguement, a computer is just a tool that enables its user to perform tasks that they otherwise couldn’t or would take much longer without, whether it be artworking, word processing or gaming. While one could use a hammer to tighten a screw it generally would be easier (and indeed better) to use a device more suited to that task, like for instance, a screwdriver. At the end of the day a computer whether it be running OS X, Windows or whatever is like the hammer, just a tool.
Oh yeah, and I remember when W95 came out and the “moan about M$ crowd” said they would not move from 3.11. Odd how these people seem to disappear into the woodwork at about the SP1 time…
pc rule macs drewl
macs notably are pcs anyway
Dual core intel
same RAM
Same hardrive
Pc just have more choice.
macs are princibly specialist pcs
Time was when most Mac users were aggressively defensive, paranoid and well, OK I’ll let you have it, perfect candidates for prolonged therapy. Things have moved on since 2001, and it’s the Windows camp that now appears to harbour a bourgeoning, defensive and paranoid lobby.
I never thought the day would arrive, but most Mac users I meet now are just plain reasonable people. There is still the residual vocal minority that any platform has within it’s structure, but their voice just doesn’t matter. There is now sufficient critical mass for reason to prevail most of the time.
I just happen to prefer Mac OS X for it’s ability to get out of the way, but I wouldn’t actually die if someone placed Vista in front of me. I even signed up to test RC2 with an open mind - and was pleasantly surprised.
I recently bought a macbook, my first apple computer.
My first impressions on the look and feel:
PC= Chevy Cavalier
Mac=BMW 330i
I have a couple of points that I would like to make. First off there are many similarities between Mac OSX (10.4.8) and the new Windows Vista. OSX has been out on the market for some time.
The second point that I have is: why are people switching to Mac and not the other way round? Windows maybe the world standard but it does not mean it is the best OS on the market. OSX and Linux are more stable and relativly more secure.
[...] Mac vs. PC debate still stokes some passions, that’s for sure. Lots of good debate going on here with interesting comments from both side of the aisle, and from those walking down the [...]
I used to build my old windows systems to the high spec i needed to edit video on, but over the last few years have made the transition to a Mac Pro running Final Cut Studio and Shake and i find the Mac system infinatly better to work on. With my Pro Care membership i get unlimited Pro Apps training at any Apple store worldwide, so, no matter where i am, if i have a problem i just book an appointment on-line and see a specialist in store to help me out. The quality of the product and the outstanding after sales support i have recieved puts my Mac lightyears ahead of the PC equivalent. One poster on here said ‘I can pick up a laptop at PC world for under £300′, which is great for him, but for people like me who use these machines to earn a living, the reliability, support and software integration that the Macs i use now is well worth the price tag.
300 hundred quid for a piece of shit, no thank you. In the real world i need to get work done and i need things to just work, maybe if i were paid to faff about and try to get things to work then i’d get a Windows based piece of shit. Honestly if you haven’t owned a mac that runs OS X and a windows XP based PC then you should keep your thoughts to yourself.
What many of you mac & linux users seem to be forgetting is a little thing called… DirectX 10. It is for this reason that most “serious” gamers including myself will be following the Vista route. As for me, I have been a happy Windows user for absoloutly years and I can honestly say I have never had a single virus or spyware instance in that time. I simply downloaded all the Microsoft security patches, and relied on Norton IS to fend off any potential viruses etc…problem solved. The final thing that really annoys me about macs is the lack of intercompatibility with commercial hardware (and please dont mention C2D’s as the mac versions were designed specifically for macs…)
After having 3 Dell laptops (which worked fine) I switched to a MacBook Pro last month.
The main reason? Security of the OS.
That said, the MacBook Pro is a dual core Intel, and I have Parallels (which allows me to run XP in a separate window or monitor).
So now I have the best of both worlds on one box…
Let me first say that having used Apple products daily for the last twenty years I have a slight bias.
I recently began doing web programming as a job, using Visual Studio 2.0, Sql Server 2005, and the like on Windows XP. This isn’t on the newest hardware and I’m pretty demanding which might explain the fact that software freezes and crashes on me about twenty times a day. Some things like Sql Server are rock solid and I’ve never had an issue with them. But when it comes to Visual Studio I have nothing but problems. It constantly crashes, looses the ability to copy/paste?, and generally screws things up. I point this out as a reason why I hate XP even though it’s not totally XP’s fault.
But XP doesn’t handle the problems gracefully. When a program gets confused and hangs or just decides that it really wants to use every bit of the processor, XP happily sets the System Idle Process to 0 and doesn’t let you do anything until the other program is done. I also have improper screen redraws all the time. Especially from little popups telling me something I already know coming up from the task bar.
I guess I’ll have to wait to see how much Vista fixes. I can’t really believe that Microsoft put too much effort into really improving the OS. They only seem to work on things that fit into their business model. So even though they probably fixed the problems I listed above they undoubtedly added something which will annoy me just as much, such as the security settings or DRM.
Is it fair to call this Mac vs. PC when both OS X and Windows run on the same chips?
One last observation I have is that I’ve found that most Windows users have never used a Mac, just as most Mac users have never used Linux. Nice to see people above put their 2 cents in while mentioning their experience without just saying how much something sucks.
Writing this on a 1.5ghz G4 Powerbook while my 2.0ghz Core 2 Duo sits on the shelf.
I once owned a pc… used it for spreadsheets, email, web surfing, etc…
these days, I record, mix, and master whole albums on my Powerbook…
I even shot a video for the last band I produced using the Powerbooks built in cam…edited it using Final Cut Pro…
I couldnt go back to pc’s if I wanted to…
Macs are good for video editing and a few other graphical tasks. Completely under-supported for everything else. They more secure for the same reason; that they make up only a tiny fraction of the computers out there. Why write a virus for a small number of Macs when you could go for the PC.
Mac users tend to be hardcore fanatical geeks who completely refuse to hear anything vaguely anti-mac, very similar to Star Trek fans (most of them probably are).
I’ve used both in my time but on the whole I much prefer using the PC and find most of the more useful software is only available on PC.
I have used both pc and Mac for my work. I am not a designer ..I am a biologist. There is a trent now that every department in every univesity has to have macs for some reason..If you go into my lab you will see two macs and a pc…guess which is the more used…….The PC,the macs just gather dust…and I am talking about G5s.
Contrary to what a devotie of apple would say they crush all the time ( the pc an oldish DELL full of bits and bobs is a trooper) and although they are good at handling hi res scanned pics from experiments their data handiling sucks big time, so they are only used to look at prety pictures the rest of the work is done on the pc…
I just hope they realise that and switch back to pcs and save some money for the tax payer….
“James
Sorry but there is no option, if you want an o/s that runs all you want and also allows you to play games when you want ( no I am not some sad gamer glued to a screen! ) then it just is not practical to use OSX or Linux.”
You are an absolute moron.
Office runs on a Mac (The fact that word and excel are originally mac apps, and pcs run ported versions makes you look very stupid too), Photoshop runs on a Mac, Illustrator runs on the Mac, LabView runs on the Mac, Final Cut, for a home user Apple bundle just about all the software you need…. need i go on?
As for linux, have you even looked at the ubuntu distros? easy to install, and add packages, and runs really well.
Come on, list a bit of software that has a large user base that doesn’t run on mac.
idiot
The FUD and myths being propagated buy the PC people is basically as follows.
“If in some parallel universe Mac OS X had the same market share as Windows then it would suffer the same level of security breaches.”
Anyone who has an understanding of how the two operating systems are designed will know this is utter utter bunkum.
OS X is secure by design. Windows is not.
Name me one, just one virus or trojan that has impacted on Mac OS X since its inception over 5 years ago. And don’t mention OSX/Leap-A or the Inqtana-B worm as these have only ever existed in the lab.
The botnet/virus problem is not an IT problem or an internet problem as such. It is a WINDOWS problem. Once you admit that then you are on your way to solving the issue.
The world has standardised on the wrong OS and now its time to switch.
Windows sucks.
there now someone has said it!
I learnt on Mac, still use Mac, will always use Mac.
i find Windows fustrating, restrictive, no short cut for quiting apps (programs)! Never get hardware in-compatabilitys with Mac, everything just works. Macs look better than PCs, Macs are easyer to use the PCs. With Intel you can use Windows programs on macs, so no more “PCs have more programs etc”
Only thing i dislike about Macs?.. the price. But id rather pay for somthing i know will last me 5+ yrs than 1yr!
Oh and i hear the new Vista already has problems. Pirate OS CDs contain backdoors and trojans hiden in the install..lol.
Nowerdays i leave the Mac sucks idiots to them selves, leave them to strugle their way through their life.
in the old days the versions of graphical software written for the MAC were superior to the PC. During the whole of this time the MAC as been more friendly to use and easier on the eye. Mac stands for quality and PC stands for mass market hence the difference in price. if i could afford to buy one i would.
Out of necessity i use a PC but i am convinced i will return to using Linux due to DRM restrictions and the monopoly power of Microsoft.
if idont need to use Microsoft software for work related things - i wont.
i think the MAC is now more competitively priced?
tony in leicester uK
I think that Mac would be more popular if they didn’t make the hardware themselves and let the users choose.
It does strike me that the fact that the debate is about A vs B, rather than about A vs B vs C vs D etc…, is the biggest issue of all. There is no competition for Windows. That, to me, is the real issue.
If I use MS Office under Windows XP in a virtual machine running on Linux or Mac OS X, what operating system am I using?
I’ve played with MAC pre OS-X and quite frankely then the number of times I came across a system bomb was quite surprising. It certainly was not as stable then as people would lead you to believe.
Since those days both OS’s have moved on significantly so.
In the early days it used to be MAC for illiustrators photographers and other jobs and Windows for other tasks. These days its much more blurred.
If you can try ‘em both in YOUR real world scenario then which ever suits you the best IS the best.
Simple really - I dont know what all the fuss is about.
Hmmm, Let’s see, I’ve two PCs, one with XP and one running W2K, a Mac mini, and I run several debian image in a virtual machine on the W2K PC (dual xeon etc)
I still don’t know what I like best. My preference is directed by what I need to do my work best.
On a personal note:
I loath the visual qualities of W2K & XP, but I love the consistency of the keyboard control in these GUIs.
I adore the visual qualities of OS X, but I loath the subtle inconsistencies in the keyboard control of the OS X platform GUI. If you do a lot of text work (programming, writing) switch between mouse and keyboard is a pain.
I love the stark soberness of telnet terminal on *nixes, but I as yet I haven’t seen a GUI worth taking about.
PC vs Mac - Well, my parents used to have a huge old Dodge station wagon - and I had a Toyota (this is when they were VERY rare).
The Dodge was great - it was big, could haul anything - but it stalled out everywhere!!! In the middle of intersections on the driveway, at -30 degrees - everywhere. My toyota though never stopped. So my dad bought a Toyota in the early 80s and never looked back - he kept buying toyotas. We couldn’t get him to look at anything else after that.
Well, we’ve had DOS and Windows systems ever since we replaced our CPM2.2 machine (a long time) - every model (version) always stalled out (crashed) - everywhere (anytime). Swore I’d try a Mac but got talked out of it by the salesperson on the last purchase - but the new Windows PC keeps locking up too.
Seems I keep getting suckered into buying windows based systems on the expectation that the latest version will be better. Instead I think I’ll have to look at the Dodge vs Toyota situation - 35-years later Toyota still offers the more reliable vehicle - some things don’t change.
The mac-heads forget that OSX is built on BSD. So they can rant and rave about how secure their OS is, anyone with half a brain about secure operating systems know a BSD based OS is going to be securer than anything microsoft puts out.
Microsofts main problem with security is the integration of many of their components into the operating system, rather than modular design. This has been alleviated in Vista (apparently), so we’ll wait and see how it performs in the next few months.
And the last point about security, it’s amazing how many people bitch about how insecure operating systems are, yet don’t tweak their security to meet their demands. A very embarrassing example being the US military with the Gary McKinnon control. If the US military can make that kind of **** up, just think what the average user of any operating system can do.
Yours, Brian
A FreeBSD user.
Well, I’m a PC gamer and as such, have to support Windows over Mac every day - Macs are simply not supported for proper gaming, mainly due to software compatibility and hardware drivers.
However, as has been mentioned, for creative purposes, Macs seem a much better choice.
I think the OS all depends on how you use your computer. I’d just warn that Mac users really shouldn’t get complacent about security. Most virus writers use Windows and if they have some vindictive tirade against Macs (eg, users who would write “Macs suck” here), it would wipe most complacent Mac users out.
I think the reason there are more posts from Mac users is simple. Mac users have almost always had to use Windows extensively at on point or another - Windows is too ubiquitous in the workplace to avoid. Windows users who say they have ‘tried both’ usually mean they have had to do one or two things, on one or two occassions (if that), and often on a pre OS X 10.3.X machine - which was the update that introduced stunning user-orientated touches like Expose.
So, in this sense, Mac users aren’t a group of insular geeks, they are people who have had to try both, really learn both, use them for work and pleasure (or displeasure!) and know that it is simply an objective question for %99.99 of users. OS X isn’t just more friendly because it’s dumbed down, it is more friendly because it has been designed to be more friendly from scratch, particularly if you are using multiple application windows. It isn’t 100% secure, and the smaller user base helps, but it IS more secure than windows. It isn’t more stable because people haven’t upgraded their security patches, it is more stable because it is designedto be more stable (in four years of pushing OS X to the very limit, I have never had one application bring down the whole system - when one application crashes, that’s all that crashes. It IS as customiseable as a Windows machine, it’s just that the Windows users don’t know where to find anything in Mac OS X, and a lot of it is deliberately hidden unless you know how to display it - so as to avoid accidental changes. It takes half the number of clicks, on average to do anything to your set-up in OS X than it does in Windows. Mac OS X does not constantly bombard you with messages telling you what it’s up to - if you plug something in, it only tells you if it’s NOT working - it doesn’t feel the need to tell you stuff you already know the way Windows does (you have plugged in a mouse and it is working, for example!). I review software and hardware for both OS X and Windows every week, and I can assure you that the installs are genrally smooother and quicker on OS X than Windows.
And as for this nonesense about buying a laptop for £300 and comparing that to a Powerbook (the poster has obviously not noticed that Powerbooks were replaced by Intel driven macbooks - a bit like a Mac user writing about a PIII as if it were cutting edge technology) - what rubbish. If you are comparing a Mac laptop to a PC laptop, you need to look to comparable Intel Core Duo 2 machines, which are actually as expensive - or often more so! - than the new breed of Mac counterparts. And having installed Windows on a Dell PC and Macbook Pro in the same week, i can assure you that it was actually easier on the MAc, as bootcamp automatically burns you a disk with all the relvant drivers for your hardware, whereas on the Dell i had to trawl the net for the individual bits of make-me-work code. That’s the ind of attention to detail and efficiency you get with a Mac.
In theend, I’m not saying that Windows doesn’t have any redeeming features, but i do think these are largely limited to on or two bits of software that are PC only. But with the new breed of Macs able to run both Windows (as a Window within OS X, if you use Parallels!) and OS X, and all of the unquestionable efficiency and reliability advantages of OS X then the smart money has to go on a Mac.
And do keep in mind, this is not a Mac geek talking. This is somebody who started using MS DOS in the 80s, graduated to Windows 3.0 in the 90s (with some dabbling on a Commodore 64, an Atari St and Amiga Falcom in the the interim), had the very first version of Windows 95 on the market, thought Windows NT was the best OS since sliced bread, and had not even pressed a key on a Mac until 2002. Now I use both, everyday, and can promise you that almost everything I do on a PC takes longer, is fraught with problems, and I spend at least one working day a month in total (unpaid, of course, as i freelance) making sure my PC stays healthy, while my Macs sit open on the internet all day every day, have at least three bits of hardware installed and uninstalled and I have only ever done one complete Mac re-install, and even that wasn’t to improve its performance or fix a problem - it was just to streamline all the applications I had installed to see if having less on there provided new more focused ways of working.
So, buy a Windows machine if you want, but if you really think Macs & PCs have their reltive merits, then I’m afraid the only sensible and balanced choice is an Intel Mac and a purchased copy of Windows to install on it.
ps I meant “have three bits of hardware installed and uninstalled every fortnight!”
pps To people who think Mac users won’t hear naything anti-Apple - most Mac users hate Apple, by the way. We will hear things anti-Mac, but only from people who know what they are talking about, i.e. Mac users! It’s just htat most of what PC users say abotu Macs is plain wrong. But there is plenty to criticise Apple for…
Apple bully you into upgrades and treat their users like unquestioning and downtrodden partners who Apple know will jump through whatever hoops they place in front of them. Oh, and once you have sent your money, unless you buy an AppleCare package they will charge through the earth for any repairs. Seriosuly, Apple is the most thoughtless, arrogant and overbearing corporate entity in the world today.
But guess what, there’s a reason most Apple users put up with this - because we still the think the advantages are worth the hassles. And we know that things aren’t that much better for PC users anyway - as most of us do, or have, used both.
“Mac users tend to be hardcore fanatical geeks who completely refuse to hear anything vaguely anti-mac, very similar to Star Trek fans (most of them probably are).”
Why the fallback on the time-old thing that Mac owners are Geeks?
I used PCs only, up until 1st Jan 2005. That’s the day I bought my first Mac. Since then, It’s been used every day, and I’ve never had to reformat it - it performs exactly the same now as when I cought it. This also included an OS upgrade about a year and a half ago.
I still use PCs, as I do home recording, and had already bought my software on PC. Even so - all the software I use is available for the Mac, and I;d switch if I didnt have to rebuy everything. Apart from that on drawback, I can safely say I’d dump my PC if I could.
I can tell you straight away that it takes a hell of a lot more of a geek to keep PCs running well than it does a Mac. Ever heard the phrase ‘It Just Works’? Well… It’s true. I’ve had so little in the way of problems with my Mac. The simple fact is, OS X looks after itself much better.
On-the-fly disk defragmentation? Check. Unix-based OS that needs you to enter a password before allowing any istalls to happen? Check. Machine that can stay on for weeks with no slowdown of crashes? Check.
If windows was better, I’d stick with a PC. Simple fact is - it’s not for most things - games excepted; Windows is miles ahead in the respect. However - Mac owners dont buy them for gaming. Been using vista for a while - it’s definitely much better, and is a lot closer to OS X in usability and looks. Ain’t there yet though.
I can tell you - using both (as well as Linux), I’m well qualified to comment. Macs are where its at, usage wise. There is very little I can’t do with my Mac, and the gap is closing all the time.
Maybe its time for some people (non-gamers!) to swallow their pride and give Macs a go. I did (took a bit of convincing I can tell you!), and I’ve never looked back.
My (informed) 2p.
Cheers.
You guys really have got to get away from the “mac is good for this and Windows is good for that argument”.
Both machines can do the same job…its just one does it better and in my opinion that is the Mac!
The only thing that really needs to be done is for Windows using companies and developers to realise that they will eventually have to support the mac…do they know how many machines a 6% market share represents.
Windows developers are inherently lazy and this is because Microsoft is too. Its goal was to dominate by doing its own thing. Ignore standard was its motto. Things have changed MS Windows developers will have to change to and in my opinion for the better - when they do then it will truly not matter which machine you use; it will be just be a matter of personal preference.
in the proffesional market i think most users know which platform is best suited to their proffession, and the most efficiant, though i’d wager a bet there will be a larger percent of windows users, that could benefit from osx as opposed to mac users benefiting from switching to windows.
so this whole debate is really about the domestic market.
with the exception of gaming, what could possibly be the advantage of windows over osx?
nobody is ever clear about that.
windows is a total hassle compared to osx, its ugly, more complicated, insecure, requires solutions to solutions to solutions for everyday domestic use.
locations in the dated looking interface are the equivelant of working with a person who has transparent skin, you see bits you dont need to see, you have access to things you really dont need access to, you can easilly mess up things you really dont want to mess up, and you lose things you really really need.
the anti mac arguments are more often than not coming from a domestic angle and usually by people who do little more than play games surf the net and email on their home machines, have seldom used a mac, let alone having ever owned one.
it would be highly abnormal for an osx user to switch to windows. once you understand osx you value you its logic simplicity and cleanliness, its bringing computing forward clearing out the bits we dont need, basicilally making the whole process of domestic (and proffesional) computing run smoother, and at the end of the day more pleasurable.
to put it one way
if given the choice (at best) would you rather have a machine that does what you need it to do, however requires thought, precautions, preventative measures, a lot of consideration, seprate componants, SPACE!, a platfrom built not unlike frankenstein’s monster, all house unlovingly in an ugly box spewing wires, looking like somthing that hasn’t advanced in 20 years and is still basically just …a computer?
or…
have an inspiring, clean, cutting edge design classic well built “element” in your room that not only stands uncluttered but often steals the focal point, a machine that does everything you want it to do, without any precaution, fear, consideration, simple elegant interface that makes sense, if you want to see its innerworkings you really have to go looking, as everything you need is in front of you, with nearly every bit of software on the mac complimenting the next, integrating with eachother, made by a company you instantly inderstand, loves its customers. a machine that can surprise you with neat little details that can often make the user clap and grin, small unessisary interface details and core animation, that says to you…”what you are doing right now doesn’t need to be boring” a machine that looks and behaves like it has came al long long way away from the beige boxes of the 80’s, with its current design that can’t be any more minimal, in their own words “where did the computer go?”
exactly…. where DID the computer go?
ask any windows user, they’ll tell you.
calculations, operations and programming are all things that are very very irrelevant to the average domestic user, thats what computing is.
i think calling a mac a “computer” is like calling a homosapien a chimp.
as someone else says you can think of these machines like hammers and tools, but i reckon you’d struggler to find many mac owners that would regard their machine as a mere tool.
in fact most mac owners i know name their macs.
i own 5 macs in total all permanantly turned on and available, wirelessly networked (without even a mere firewall)
one in each room, each with a personality and name, all serving as televisions/hifi-jukeboxes/alarm clocks/newspapers/reference/entertainment/dvd players/communications/phones. all with speakers built in no wires etc. never a single problem or security issue. all regulary updated by apple on a weekly basis.
all creating a great impact on each room, and a solution to every task i could possibly want to undertake whilst at home.
i wont even get into the fact that we work from home on the macs and how well they are suited to our proffession as thats a redundant topic.
bottom line, there are many reasons why mac users are passionate. many call it a cult, or a church, its very easy to draw similarities with steve jobs and religeous cult leaders etc, i admit that, i look forward to his sermons. i gasp in awe and majesty at every beautiful high street church they open, i never leave home without my “bible” wired into my ears.
i know most pc users will think all of this over the top, but its nothing to do with being born different or anything, its about life being better, evolution, looking forward to the next innovation that makes progress move on.
eg. look at the “multi touch” technology first going on sale in the apple phone. if that is not the closest step towards the interface used in the film “minority report” (which i imagine we all drooled at?) then nothing is, and that’s precisely what apple are aiming towards, basic computing is ancestry, pc’s are static, macs are leaning forward and everything else catches up each time.
it is a mission, its thinking forward.
there are only 3 companies in the whole world i whole heartedly respect and support in everything they are doing.
apple
google
nivea
i dont see much room for any merging with nivea with either of the 2 companies, but i think its safe to say that the attitude of both google and apple compliment eachother well, and are going to make the everything run smoother for us all, i honestly just dont get anything from microsoft other than, their rivalry, their answer to somthing, their version, their lack of vision, their lack of passion, their lack of soul, and lack of design and aesthetics…. its just a hammer.
anyway, thats what i think.
xx
I went from Sinclair to Amiga and finally settled with Apple. I (have to) use Windows machines at work.
When I was deciding on what to change to after my Amiga I went on my own personal experiences. I was used to the Amiga’s UI and found it very intuitive to use. My experiences with my work Windows machines, and those owned by my friends were always pretty frustrating. I got the feeling that people spent more time messing with their Windows machine just to get them to work properly. XP is certainly a vast improvement on what went before. But the Windows OS just didn’t seem to make any sense to me back then.
The turning point came when a (Windows owning) friend of mine brought home a G3 iMac that his company wanted on their reception desk “because it looks pretty”. He told me that apparently it had a digital video editing program (iMovie). Seeing as I had just returned from a holiday with a heap of digital video tape I thought I’d take a look.
Suffice to say that within 10 minutes I was editing my holiday tape without the use or resorting to an instruction manual or online help. SOLD!
In the end it’s all about whether the OS you’re using allows you do to the things you want to do. I’ve found that the Mac OS (9 and X) allows me to do this. I don’t want to get into the guts of my machine. I just want to do stuff with it. I play some games but I’m not a “gamer”. I’m not too worried about malware because I trust myself to be careful on what I download to my machine.
It’s pretty pointless an argument to say “Windows sucks” or “Mac sucks”. What is important is to have an open mind. To be big enough to acknowledge that there are certain things that Apple or Microsoft do that is better than the opposition. I found a solution that works for me. I accept that it’s not for everyone but I don’t discount Windows out of hand.
I have owned both Macs and PCs but I’ll keep any preferences to myself. A consumer should choose the platform that will work best for their intended use.
To me, the only interesting question left is this very tired debate is simply this: Now that both platforms use essentially the same hardware, how can Apple continue to justify the large premium they charge?
I have just been won over by the mac revolution. After working with a PC with microsoft providing the OS, well for all of my life, it was refreshing to use something different and something new. I have been won over by Jobs and the apple team.
I find the OSX intuitive, easy to use, and less time consuming to dot your I’s and cross your T’s.
Microsoft Vista OS may look similar and advertise the same performance, oops but wait I have to download a patch that takes an hour to download and install, take that hour and multiply by 1000 and that’s how much time you wasted during the life of this microsoft product.
Since switching over to mac, I no longer shout and curse at my computer, and spend no time at all wondering where the light at the end of the tunnel is - because it is here! long live the mac!
I work as a professional National IT Helpdesk supporter for a large global corporation with branches in 143 countries. 8 hours a day I’m supporting Windows-only users (xp/2000) plus server issues etc. I’m stunned everyday as to the amount of completely random and illogical software errors that these poor users have to encounter and how often their machines ‘f*ck up’, despite a recent formatting and reinstallation of their entire system. There’s a tight and stringent security policy implemented by the company, so viruses and other malicious software is rarely the issue here. Still, I’m amazed of all the incidents on WinPC’s, even my own work PC.
In private I’ve never owned a Windows machine and probably never ever will, even if I were given a top-drawer model for free!
To come home to my Mac after work is SUCH a bliss!! I don’t have to dig around in the deep subfolder structure of OS X in order to have my system do what I want it to. It just works; and always has. Rarely (if ever) do I even have to install drivers for plug and play devices (USB, Firewire, PCMCIA/Cardbus) since most are already built-in to the system. . I don’t use ANY anti virus/anti spyware and never have to turn on my firewall either. No need to!
To the person who mentioned hardware compatability and IntelMac’s… You need to know what you’re talking about before you open your mouth. They are exactly the same processors, and optical and harddrives, etc. are likewise to be found in both IntelMac’s and PC’s. The only reason I might not be able to use a specific PC-hardware is simply the fact, that the developer of said hardware is a lazy bastard who couldn’t be bothered to provide drivers for multiple platforms. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with either OS X, Windows, Intel or what have have you…However, should I still require the need to use this specific pice of hardware, I can boot up my MacIntel into WinXP and install the Win driver and it would be working like any other Dell, Toshiba, whatever…
Does anyone have a record of those debates of 23 years ago?
If I recollect the debate would have been about Apple IIs versus IBM PCs. The Mac had only just come out and Microsoft didn’t have an OS to compete with the Macintosh. So I don’t know how this is a reunion of debaters on an old topic. Obviously, everyone today has selective memories, most of all Microsoft.
This topic may be stale (although not as stale as these misinformed bloggers would suggest), still these debates are being conducted and with the pretense of impartiality. It’s another example of the current Microsoft ’social’ marketing ploy, i.e. using blogs and grass-roots confessionals from key ‘experts’ to sway people to buy Vista. The internet is full of these fake, partial and slanted Microsoft testimonials.
The question of where you sit on the side of a fence, or do you straddle that fence…
is typically where technology and home computing is supposed to knock down the damned fence and let everyone take a walk in the field together.
I view technology as an enabler, not a cultural clan I’m a part of because I own a product - I hate that side of brand marketing. It’s a limitation to the goal of technology.
My analysis of both OS’s comes as a writer, web developer, and sound design - I built my own PCs for five years and now I own a mac.
In order to get my windows machine audio ready, I had to go through a whole sequence of steps to get rid of extraneous processes to make it run audio software, not get clogged by virii (only got 1 virus on a machine running for 3 years), and keep the logical structure of all my projects clean.
My mac has a few similar steps, but not as many. But, this powerbook crashes. And my new Macbook Pro has a funny sound on the audio output - in the process of figuring out if it’s my whole audio rig or the laptop (either way it eats audio alive and barely winks at the CPU!)
But the internet as a sort of “public os” or social operating system (aptly: S.O.S!!!!!) is absolutely interesting. It complies with my belief that technology should knock down the fence. I’d hate to think that I couldn’t work with some of you are have a good conversation simply because you hate my mac or I hate your PC.
It’s a shame that technology can commit personal wars in people. I’d rather go online and see all the interesting things you are doing, regardless of where you are or what you use or what you wear - eeeeespecially since most of us probably wear as little as possible in front of these computers.
HG, just wanted to say a couple things to set the record straight.
In 1984 the debate was Mac vs. DOS… a graphical interface vs. a command line. I was editor in chief of A+, a leading Apple magazine prior to that. From 1978-1981 I argued for the Apple II vs CP/M, from 1981 to 1984 I argued in favor of the Apple II vs. DOS, and in 1984 I was totally passionate about the Mac vs. the PC. That’s when I became editor in chief of MacUser magazine. Back then you couldn’t find a bigger Mac fanatic than me.
The participants in the discussion we had (which will be up on PodTech.net on the 30th) was pretty balanced in terms of what platforms we use. Harry, Robert, and I use both Mac and PC, Jeremy uses a PC, and Sam uses a Mac. We certainly tried to represent both sides.
And as a journalist, I am definitely not a mouthpiece for Microsoft or anyone else. This was not some “social marketing ploy†… we did this of our own accord, with no pressure from Microsoft. Nor any incentives… Microsoft gave laptops loaded with Vista to some journalists, and I suppose that was an attempt to sway them None of the participants in our discussion received one of those laptops from Microsoft.
The Mac has some real strengths, and if you are doing music or video it has a definite advantage. My main complaint about it is the premium price, which makes it harder to afford for people who are financially disadvantaged. Now that Mac OSX works on Intel processors, I wish Apple would open up their platform and allow the OS to run on systems from other companies. That would make it more affordable, grow the installed base, and attract more application developers. How’s this for irony: I think that the main obstacle to the Mac’s success is Apple.
XP, Vista, OSX. It is about choice. My latest Mac runs ‘em all, (and all PC software too), why bother with less? Cost? Add it all up over the long term, and don’t forget to factor in all that PC spyware/virus software while you are at it. My 2001 Mac G4 tower runs the very latest OSX so easily and is still worth $600.
Whats this obsession with ‘Marketshare’ 25 ian, see through the volume and look at the product and experiance - windows people always ry and use the volume factor as some kind of aurgument, most of the windows OS has arrive already installed and not from choice - Skoda make masses and Ferari makes few - enough said.
All this is nonsense. The internet is the answer not the OS. Security schmecurity, nothing is safe even with 1000 antivirus programs installed. Who are they lying to?. Computers are tools to solve problems and to effectively run accounts, see scientific discrepancies, plot the human DNA, study weather changes, make more effective weapons (like it or not), etc., etc., etc. The lowest denominator, I think, are the computer games inside an invention that should evolve closer to the human brain… so much for the brain. I use Mac OSX, Windows XP, Linux and soon Solaris. Every OS has its advantages for individual users and various manufacturer programs and applications.
Hi all,
after working in the industry for a number of years and having the need to work on all 3 OS , linux, os x and windows based machines from computers to servers.
A few things i have noticed talking to clients,
1. yes its down to prefernce for the job, most people in the art or creative end ie DTP, graphics prefere MACS
2.PC’s are good but have there issues mainly due to the fact different companies .i.e dell.hp and Windows has to amange these differnces, where OS X is sole developed by Apple who amcs the compuer as well, last time i checked microsoft doesnt make PCS
For me I like linux and have a laptop using security tools, it takes a while to learn and is more command line based and understanding how the system works, also great for old PCS that are near the end of the life,
Macs are great to work on pleaseing to the eye but have their problems and all the Mac users who say there great and never go wrong just work on a Xserver with OpenDirectory errors
At home i Have rugged PC as my main computer this is a cheap affordable option which all the family know how to use all though Most of the work needs to be done to upkeep them.
For me im not going Vista aybe after SP1 but i prefer linux becasue i like to know how it works,
personal prefence is the main factor there is no clear winner.
John writes:
>>Macs are good for video editing and a few other graphical tasks. Completely under-supported for everything else.
I am deemed a Mac addict because I choose use them at home predominately. But I have chosen this diet through a love of Music and Complex Mathematics.
The issue of operating system is only really important if;
(a) you need to complete a specific task which can only be achieve through a specific piece of software or
(b) your personal knowledge and ability limits you to using a specific operating system (which is the majority).
I work in operational excellence where success is most often limited by the human and not the computer. Despite the first having a far superior potential.
PC’s remind me I am alive, Mac’s remind me I can live!
…just something that makes me laugh…. I have never used a Mac, but I guess they don’t have a spell checker do they….??
Just read back all the posts from the Mac users and then look at the spelling mistakes - just fantastic and hilarious!
I guess either the Mac doesn’t do spell checking or there is some Mac-social-thing going on that us PC users don’t get.
Just something that makes me laugh!
BTW - Tip from a PC user - we have this thing called ‘cut and paste’ - you type into Word, it spell checks stuff and then you can transfer it to any other application - it soooo kwool I guess Macs don’t do that eh?
MS are taking the p**s with Vista pricing. £140 for an upgrade from XP. Time for Apple to sell OS X for Non-Apple hardware.
Does it matter any more? With Web 2, all you need is a browser.
“Tip from a PC user - we have this thing called ‘cut and paste’ - you type into Word, it spell checks stuff”
Actually, you can spell check in any application on OS X by right clicking. You can select a single suspect word, even on a web form & you get suggestions for the correct spelling. You can also choose to spell check the whole form, or set it to check as you type. You can also get dictionary definitions of any word you type or any word you read. (Hold “Apple + CTRL + D” & mouse over words)
I guess everyone does not choose to use these functions, but thats more of a user issue than a OS failing.
I’ve read this thread with interest. I’ve been a long time Dos then Windows user and have recently acquired a MacBook. I see people complaining about the extra cost of buying a Mac v PC. This is only part of the story. The true cost of ownership needs to have software costs added in. For a pretty basic PC installation, XP+Office, the cost becomes close to the Mac for which the amount of quality free software is astounding. I’ve loaded Open Office for free and it’s handled every PC file I’ve thrown at it without problem. It also adds the facility for saving documents in PDF format. I think Adobe charge £200+ for a program just for this purpose.
all things have holes for security, my first pc was a Epson HX20, and I’ve used both PC’s and MACs at times over the past 24 years since, use whatever you like- but keep in mind even Bill Gates has said his industry is driven by 18 month product cycles. So we will always be 18 months away from the next dBASE 4 and company collapse, the internet applications may even be the undoing of the current paradigm. Oh, and I have nothing against using any computer to accomplish a task- although making videos on my current Macbook is simpler than using my old Dazzle unit and software on a PC. If I could afford it i’d buy a CRAY
1. Compare similarly specced PCs and Macs (not bargain basement models) - the Mac will cost the same as the PC, if not be cheaper.
2. Security - want to cause a stir and be the hero of the hacker/virus writer community? Write a virus for OS X. Market share counts for nothing when you consider the press such a move would make.
3. Games - I use this thing called a PlayStation for games. I find it works better than any computer.
4. Software - I don’t need 26 different office suites, one will do. So what’s the problem?
5. Ease of use - what I want to do on a Mac is just more intuitive. How would I expect to perform an action tends to be the way it’s performed on a Mac.
6. It Just Works - fire up my MacBook, it finds a wi-fi network, I provide the password, I’m connected. Compared to my g/f’s PC laptop which constantly loses her wireless network that yesterday it connected to perfectly (and bear in mind, her laptop doesn’t leave the house… mine seamlessly connects to one of 10 networks it’s previously used at different clients’ premises). Same with pretty much any peripheral I plug-in.
7. The ‘Macs for arty types’ argument doesn’t hold water; maybe it did in the past but it’s a stupid one now. Everybody has digital content - photos and music especially. Cataloguing and using this content is just so easy on a Mac. Show me the comparable products to iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, iTunes and Garageband and I’ll show you five products from different software houses that don’t work seamlessly together, cost a few hundred and didn’t come free with your new PC.
8. If you’re going to have to learn a few new ‘tricks’ to get the most out ouf Vista - why not make those new ‘tricks’ on a Mac?
9. I can run XP, Vista, Linux and pretty much anything on my Intel-based Mac.
10. As someone else said, every Mac user will have Windows experience - such is life - and has made an active decision to use Macs. Surely that says more than anything else?
11. (a minor annoyance) Will all the Windows fan boys please stop writing MAC likes it’s an acronym (well, it is is, but for Media Access Control). It tends to suggest that the “x” years in IT development which is often claimed didn’t teach much.
12. If you hate Macs so much, fine with us. Don’t use them. We’ll keep using our minority OS, on our lusted-after machines, enjoying our virus-free existence and creating all manner of award-winning work… and you use Windows. Doesn’t really affect us in the slightest (but if you could sort out the bot network problem it might reduce the amount of spam we get. Thanks).
Ithankyou.
I think OSX and Vista will be comparable (within reason) on security. Yet Vista will continue to be targeted far more than OSX. Why?
Many of the virus writers moved from being in it for the 15 mins of fame, to advertising the “exploits” they’d found on specialist channels auctioning the hack and code to the highest bidder.
The highest bidders are criminal organisations focused on gathering info from specific organisations. Often the exploit is used against a single company for months as the ultimate form of industrial espionage. We’re not talkng about mass worm attacks and doesn’t affect consumers, so it never makes the press.
Companies
Whoops premature hit of the submit button…
as I was about to say,
Companies with sensitive information are at highest risk of espionage, e.g. banks, brokers, pharmaceuticals. These companies all use MS operating systems, not OSX.
So this is the sweet spot for hackers to make money as well as being historically rich in opportunity due to inherit weaknesses in Microsoft OS.
Mac vs. Win vs. Lin vs. Nix, at the end of the day it is all about what you can afford to do what you need to do.
I have always associated Mac with graphics designers and video editors, the multi-culti type say and Win with pc’s and software for the masses and I’m glad to be building stuff on the latter for the past 8 odd years.
To be honest I don’t think it really matters anymore what the OS is by the way. I agree that the internet has already far exceeded the confinements of a desktop, workstation or application server whatever the OS they run. What I don’t agree with are these claims that mac is better then win or vice versa.
I’m simply hoping for the day that I can easily compile my .NET classes together with some Java classes for a OS that supports not just the latest and greatest hardware but can run on any device that was built in say the last 5 years…
MacWin are losers…… LINUX! LINUX! LINUX! LINUX!
OSX under the hood is unix. That is the primary strength in its security. Those of you who know the difference between an operating system and a windowing system will understand.
I’m a software engineer, I use a Mac for development. I can run X windows and MS Windows on my Mac at the same time as OSX. You can’t do that on a PC running Windows or Linux, both of which I also use at times.
The nicest thing about OSX is that everything just works. I don’t have days when I have to waste time struggling with the OS to get it to do something, or repair it because today it doesn’t want to talk to a network, forgets things or mysteriously needs to have software reinstalled.
These days I couldn’t care less about Windows virii, IE bugs, spambots and trojans. Since I got a Mac I don’t play that game anymore.
Oh, did I mention that Macs are well engineered and a delight to use?
The last word should really have gone to Ross Brown - he was spot on in all his comments.
But I want to say this to all the MacH8rs who keep bleating on about lack of games. My MacBook Pro runs COD2, Doom3, Quake4, Halo etc. And guess what guys, if a game doesn’t run on OSX, I select “restart,” hold down the “option” key, and (grudgingly) run the game or app under XP.
Well, I have used all kinds of computers over the years, and it has been my humble experience that every single platform (without exception) has both good and bad points. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of all the various OSes and the software which runs on them is a key requirement of any self-respecting computer professional.
Only the tools matter, people! Getting hung up on which platform is somehow overarchingly superior to all the others is a sheer waste of time. Whatever gets the job done is just fine with me. Know your tools, and apply them appropriately to deliver real results to the people who need them.
Don’t forget that many third 3rd party sw developers come up with vastly superior solutions to the ones bundled by the OS developers themselves - this is typically because the developers have a far deeper and more nuanced appreciation of the problem space their software addresses. A good developer will exploit the features of the underlying OS that she needs to deliver the feature set that’s required by her end-users.
Please don’t even think of participating in a debate over the superiority of this or that OS. Doing so is a product of skewed thinking.
There is only one operating system that really matters in computing - and that is the one located between your ears.
Facts:
1. Windows users have never used an Apple Mac, that we know.
2. Some fanatical Windows users want to stop the world switching to Mac and make up any old facts to discourage use of Macs.
3. Mac users have all used Windows and CAN judge the difference.
WHO WOULD YOU BELIEVE IN THIS SCENARIO?
And reading above all this rubbish about Apple being so “expensive”.
1. If you want to upgrade your Mac to the latest OS X Tiger the cost at Amazon is $74.99.
And that works fine on Macs up to 8 years old.
2. If you want to upgrade your PC to Vista, the cost is $379.99.
And before you say, aah there are cheaper versions of Vista, you need to know that OS X Tiger comes only in the one single ULTIMATE version, ie without the cut-down and castrated versions of Windows.
NOW what does that tell you about the difference between Microsoft and Apple???
Another example of the lies that the Windows fanatics like to throw around without looking at the truth of things.
I hold my hands up - my message was badly written and had some typos. However the problem is my bad typing skills, not the lack of a spell checker…I could write the exact message on Windoes (oops there I go again) if you prefer….anyway if you could still understand the message, what’s the problem…
If Macs are like lovers, then PCs are like prostitutes. Every mac user I know talks about ‘the mac experience’ and gets very passioate about their little box of tricks, but PC users see their technology as merely a means to an end.
Personally, I treat my PC just like a I would a whore. I push and pull hardware and software in and out of it (’cos everything will fit), get what I want out of it (usually money) and then go and have a life. I don’t CARE about it!
PC users have no passion for their technology. So what? It’s like getting worked up about a calculator or a lathe.
If you want to come across as ‘creative’ to your peers, buy a Mac!
Although the internet is the OS of the future, today’s browser is properly not. I wish the web services I used were more integrated into my desktop. R.I.P web browser or apps?
Years ago my dad bought me a zx81. I took it to visit my mother and my stepdad got a look at it. Next time i visited i had a zxspectrum (with the 16k expansion!) and he’d bought himself an amstrad. We discussed the pros and cons, then we argued about them. Eventually my spectrum started to gather dust and i bought an amiga. I went to visit my mum again and discovered that he had bought an ST. We discussed the pros and cons…
I bought a pc, or rather me and my tech buddy went out and bought the parts then built the pc. My stepdad had bought? Yup, predictably enough hed bought a mac.
25+ years. These days hes on a pc, but bless him he’s a linux user so we still have something to snipe at each other about (Friendly tho, he divorced mum years ago but i spend more time talking to him than her) We both enjoy a good moan, and i think everyone does. If it wasnt this ittd be something else, you should see the pda arguments my missus has, or for that matter the psp vs ds arguments we have.
I should have a point really… erm… ok yeah, chill out, its a fun argument but some folk take it way to seriously. When i look at my pc and compare it to the zx81 i started with the fact that i can be even having this conversation is the important part, how we are all doing it is totally moot.
K.
ps, i never spell check, i speak fluent typo.
Sirs:
I will be making a forced switch from Windows to some other OS, probably Linux when MS stops re activating
xp. I am very worried that MS controls my data and work by controlling my OS and presumably having the ability to sut it down via an “upgrade”.
That is one reason I hunted around and got a pirated version of Win2000. I advise all xp users to do the same so that they will have a backup OS against the day MS suts down XP and tries to force an upgrade to Vista.
The DRM features of Vista and the tracking ability that is rumoured to be built into IE7 make them unacceptable. I do not want a third party having that much cotrol over my computer, nor the worry that everything I do will be phoned home.
Iam already replacing as much MS and other big corp software with shareware and have found my computer runs faster, less stuff in the background and fewer programs being forcably loaded onto the start menu. Over the course of ten years Ihave seen usefull programs from Norton and McCafee and Adobe become bloatware that phones home.
I have stopped buying their products.
If Apply gets itself out from under MS’s thmb or if a third party comes up with a decent emulator that a techoignoramus can use, I would switch. However I have a software investment I do not want to give up be switching OSs.
Most of us do not want to be cutting edge, we just want familiar software that works, I am stillusing office 97, and older version of Adobe and very old graphics program, they are paid for and work fine. Why should I up grade?
I gave up on paying for anti virus programs and security programs. For net cruising I use Puppy Linux live CD and download to USB thmb drive. When it is full, I use on lione scan to check it before xferring its files to windows. So far works fine.
Anyway, the problem with Windows is that it has become corporation friendly bloat ware and it looks lke with its enhanced DRM the OS can be considered spyware.
So I am sticking with XP which currently does the job for me and when Bill Gates’ successor shuts it down I will roll back to Win2K, and then take a look at what ever OS is out there that will run my old software or which will run freeware, shareware equivalents.
FW
I agree, the DRM issues with Vista are troubling. Good point about Mac OSX being able to run even on older Macs… we touched on that in our discussion. And Vista coming in 6 different versions is confusing, and a way to both deprive some users of features, and over-charge other users to get them. I think the Vista upgrade business will be pretty slow until Microsoft addresses these issues. I’m telling my friends who use Windows to stick with XP for the time being.
I’ve always been in the Wintel camp (ok, so I has an AMD back in the 386 days), but have recently been considering a Macbook. Mac and PC both have their strengths. Comparing Dell against Apple - like for like the prices are similar, but Dell offer budget models. Mac OSX is reasonably priced, Vista is rip-off Britain in capitals - how much? £140 for an upgrade is outrageous. The onlky thing that has stopped my buying an Apple so far has been quality. The products look good but always seem to have quality issues when they are launched - look at the poor quality white plasti on the Macbook that discolours or the heat issues with the Macbook Pro. Sort out the quality problems and I’ll switch camps.
With Parallels I could run all of my PC apps so could give Vista the V’s and move to OSX.
“…Because the computing platform of the 21st century is not the Mac or the PC… it’s the internet. Operating systems just aren’t as important as they used to be…”
The difference between the internet and the OS, in whatever version is the key. Essentially, the internet is a parallel combination of distributed multiplexers addressing a distributed “buss”. The information carried is separated only by the addressing information for each communication. For example, this reply is actually going to all locations on the internet, but is only accepted at “this” location due to the addressing.
In contrast, an OS is all about management of tasks and information at the user location. Information format is essentially controlled by the individual applications.
Since the individual applications either have already began using file formats which can be read by applications specific to differing Operating Systems, and can convert those which do not at this time, the issues become three. Connectivity, computational capacity and traceability.
The connectivity is already established. Computational capacity is established with the vast number of end user computers and the continual increase in bandwidth. This is exemplified by SETI (Search for Extraterestial Intelligence) out of New Mexico (United States). SETI has and is distributing software to thousands of private computers to analyse (in the background) the raw data from its dish receivers. The end result is the processing of far more data, far more cheaply than any current supercomputing system. In essence, the central server concept fails at macro scale applications.
Last, but certainly not least is traceability. The motivations here are national security and profit. National security in the sense of today’s political climate and profit for the commercial companies. This is were the current battle for Internet version two is being waged. The argument, in essence is whether to force a central server configuration in place of the current distributed addressing.
Personally, I do not see any practical advantage for the National Security aspect simply because of the volume of information which must be processed. For example, it is fairly easy to screen text. But suppose the information looked for is actually transmitted as a JPEG picture?
Profit, however, is another “picture” altogether. A central server configuration would make “preferred” client communication a piece of cake. In addition, since all communication would be routed through a central server, alternative communication paths would immediately delvolve to 56K telephone modems. The cost of the internet just shifted from equal distribution on all to individual cost on each if you want any real response time.
Think about it, if OSX ever becomes popular, then who will the virus writers switch to? Who will be laughing then?
Linux, OS X, MS….
None of them work for me ‘out of the box’. It takes hours, even days to configure them to my liking.
I use them all very frequently, and I have found over time that using the different OS’s has made me more productive and efficient with each.
Sheesh. Really? Are we still having this converasation?
On all sides, the phrase ’screeching zealots’ seems to apply to all of this bickering.
I’m a software developer who’s been working for 13 years on the next generation internet platform. I would like to believe it will replace PC platforms. Let’s hope that Microsoft won’t continue to try undermine internet standards. And that legislators will continue to fight their arrogant, monopolistic behavior.
O, and I do like Steve Jobs. He’s a real mensch. But I don’t trust any big American multinational company, and you shouldn’t either.
As stated previously, all that matters is what OS you like to work with. I’m a lawyer and have to work with Windows during working hours, and I often loath Windows. When I get home I work with MacOS X which feels totally different. It just works and does everything I want it to do when I want it. There are no viruses, be that of inherent security or insufficient numbers, who cares. No viruses or malware, period.
In the end, Windows feels like a stubborn client you need to win over every single time, Mac OS X feels like the friend you don’t want to be without. Enough said.
Hi,
I found your blog via google by accident and have to admit that youve a really interesting blog
Just saved your feed in my reader, have a nice day
“there are only 3 companies in the whole world i whole heartedly respect and support in everything they are doing.
apple
google
nivea”
Right- so Google aiding and abetting censorship in China is ok but it’s not ok for Microsoft to the do the same? It’s ok for Apple to pay less money a month than the average employee loses down his sofa but not ok for Microsoft to act as a corporation? It’s ok for Nivea to aid and abet in the industry that sells the unattainable to young girls so they grow up with a warped body image and in the worst cases develop eating disorders?
Gotta love the double standard.
There is one company at the moment who I who heartedly support in all they are doing: Cisco- suing Apple for willful trademark infringement because Steve Jobs has come down with a severe case of Messianic fever again. Not the first time either- I remember a settle with Creative Labs less than a year ago for him breaching their patents as well. This coming from a company that cried “You stole our stolen interface! Darn you M$!” etc in the mid-90s. Hypocrisy is alive and well I see.
If a company is turning a profit it’s going to be treading on someone- if it’s not, it’s not going to survive in the lovely Western Capitalist Jungle.
And if you think Apple is in it for the bettering of mankind- how much was a G4 again? And when you look at that spec and then buy practically identical parts how much less does it cost?
Since the pact with Intel was inked Apple has become Mac In Name Only. Or to put it another way- a PC with a horrific price tag. But it’s shiny I’ll give you that.
But you also have to actually look at something else as well. Mac and PC really are not competing in the same game here- Apple is making a play for the home market here. MS’s money is in the enterprise networks, the associated Office productivity software (hence why it comes in a Mac flavour) and that’s not changing. Sure they want to keep their market share- like any corporations- but I don’t think anyone at Redmond is losing any sleep over this at the moment. Nor should they- having Apple in the market makes both companies innovate better and raise their game which I’m all for.
I live in the Seattle area and I am a Mac user. In fact, I’ve used a Mac now since 1987. Now I can assure you that I have many friends that work for Microsoft and you may assume that they are diehard user of the appropriate Operating System (XP or Vista). But something struck me several weeks ago when I was at an athletic event for my daughter. I noticed an individual who is an executive at Microsoft using a Mac Pro Laptop. Humorously, I teased him about using a Mac just prior to Vista’s introduction. His response was that he did not like OS X but he ran Parallels and booted XP in a virtual environment. He said that Apple builds the best laptops on the market bar none! I also know Microsoft has been using Mac Pro Desktops to demo Vista. Now you can believe this or not believe it. It doesn’t matter, because these are the facts that as they actually exist.
mac vs pc
mac has ilife for free
a huge reason to stay mac.
for a few dollars more you get
a digital creative future,today.
If you want to kill monsters or
add numbers, a pc is just fine.
if the shoe fits…
Would you prefer it if one OS vendor won the battle outright and became the only vendor? Don’t think so. Competition is healthy for the end user. I’m in the software industry and rely totally on PCs and MS software to make a living. Similarly I have friends who are designers etc who rely on Macs.
A PC2Mac Switcher says: I’ve been servicing Windoze machines since the days of Win 3.0 and 3.0a and DOS 3.3 before that. I have dabbled in Linux tried to keep up with the Micro/personal computer field for that whole time. Now that I’ve stopped putting together towers from odd parts and making sure to stay well behind the curve for my personal systems (There is a window for most “new technology” of about 6 to 18 months. For the first 6 months after it “goes gold”, it’s bug ridden incompatible beta ware. After 18 months it starts to become obsolescent and again - incompatible.) I have made the move to a laptop - to the Mac Book Pro of course.
OS X which is built on a real operating system, BSD Unix, with in an house (as opposed the X window graphical system) GUI is light years ahead of anything Microsloth has even talked about - even though Unix began it’s development years before DOS and Windoze. The application installation is a dream compared to Win…. Your personal data is always separated from the system directories and is vastly easier to backup.
It makes me laugh and curse by turns when read about Trojans and hostile web site threats that are supposed to target the Mac OS. Something that all of the articles I have read so far fail to mention is that while the Administrator account in Windows is enabled by default and needs to be enable to get much done. While the equivalent root account in OS X is disabled be default and is not easily enabled – even working from the command line at a terminal.
The scum ware needs to be executed with full privileges (root or administrator) to do it’s dirty work. So that when Windows scum ware executes you get it all. Where as when the Mac equivalent tries to install itself it needs to ask for the system password, which most users can’t remember anyway, but you know that it shouldn’t need this to run a video file.
One of the things that OS X is missing of course is the great Windoze registry - the cause for more system crashes slowdowns and necessary reinstalls than any other part of any operating system designed anywhere. It is of course primarily needed to help M$ retain it’s monopoly position.
As several contributors to this discussion have pointed out, it’s all about usability. For the non tech user all operating systems and computer software suck and they suck big time. It’s just that Apple stuff sucks the least. That’s the biggest difference between Apple stuff and the rest – including Linux/Unix. It’s not only stable and more secure it’s easier to use. M$ gets away with so much because of this garbage about “computer literacyâ€. When did people have to be auto-literate to drive a car – at least since Henry Ford I buried the Tin Lizzy (Model “Tâ€).
Another thing needs to mentioned in passing. The vast majority of the spam that is plugging up you mail box is being relayed by compromised Windoze boxes – the “botnetsâ€. So get a Mac if for nothing else than to clean up the Internet. (I know that has already been mentioned in this discussion but it needs to be hammered home and repeated.)
My Mac Book Pro has been my main computer for a while now and it’s very sure I’m not going back to anything put out by Microsloth.
Mac-in-tosh
My 1st machine was a ZX81 both PC & Mac suck less than that did, so who cares ?
The real question is probably Safari or IE and clearly FF wins
CC
I’ve had a PC since ‘93. In that time I’ve been creative in 2/3D animation, audio, still imaging and design. Never had a problem and I’ve always been able to build a more powerful PC than the top end Mac. It’s a myth that Macs are de rigeur for creatives.
Most people here have covered the majority of functionality but dont forget Gaming is a big part of the PC world. Macs have done some catching up and developers are making more games available on the MAC (see World of warcraft or football manager) but nonetheless the serious gamer has little option that a PC. Reasons being
1. More games are available for windows than a Mac
2. You can custom build a PC from the ground up to be ten times more powerful than the best Mac available. Macs only come in boxes.
3. Macs are expensive boxes, even when looking for a relatively expensive gaming rig.
4. A PC is more easily upgradeable (you can replace the motherboard and Processor as required. A Mac requires a whole new PC.
Of course these arent problems of the Mac OS itself but its stems from the Apple approach, locking the OS to the bios. It is, however, one reason why i cant see myself switching to a MAC.
I have been working with PCs for a very long time, since the days of DOS and windows 3.1. I support and maintain Microsoft systems for a living. I have always used Microsoft PCs at home, although have dabbled with Linux on occasions. I have had a media centre pc in my living room, controlling TV and Music throughout my house.
My most recent PC i have had for just over a year and have had to rebuild it about three times. I have downloaded patches as and when they were released automatically from MS, i have also had full antivirus software and anti spyware software and firewalls installed (let me just comment that this extra software made the computer run incredibly slowly, and it was a little tempting to disable it to get a decent performance out of the computer).
Five months ago, i did what i always thought i would never do, i purchased myself a mac mini, it was the most basic, core solo with 512MB of ram. I switched it on, and well, it worked. I was amazed as to how simple it has been to adjust to the OS, the OS came with prebudled software in the form of iLife, which includes iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, iCal, Front Row, GarageBand, Dashboard, iMovie, and the list goes on. All this software is so simple to use, i created a calendar for 2007 before xmas with pics of my kids, one click and this went off to be professionally printed and delivered to my house. The calendar took at most a couple of hours to create, but the vast majority of that was me checking brithdays and sorting through which photos to use. I have created a couple of songs (although i would not claim to be good, or anywhere near that level). These things i would never have attempted on a Windows PC and definitely not on software that comes with the OS.
My Mac has now replaced my media centre PC, i bought an Miglia tv tuner that came packaged with eyetv, and i get an amazing reception, and great quality. I have actually gone on to sell my media centre PC now as i decided it was defunct. It ran far too hot and far too noisily. My mac mini sits in my tv cabinet with doors closed and the temp remains very low indeed, i could never have done that with the PC. Not to mention that the mac mini is less than a sixth the size of the old PC.
I have been so impresed that i now have on order a macbook pro and a further mac mini (have gone for the top range mac mini this time!). Well, OSX will not suit everyone or every situation, but it has definitley done everything and more that i could want of it.
Yep, if you want to play games and spend countless hours tweaking your hardware, then stick with a windows PC, but if you want to find a whole new fun experience that is incredibly simple to learn then try a mac.
Ohh, i forgot to mention that if i miss spelt anything wrong in my previous post, that is because i am typing this on a PC and it does not automatically spell check everything that you type, no matter where you type it, unlike my MAC!
Use a Mac if you love using a mouse, get a buzz from the threat of RSI and enjoy knitting with boxing gloves during your free time.
This clearly demonstrates people not knowing the difference between hardware and software!
Mac vs PC is NOT the same as OS X vs Windows
How does this so called Mac vs PC argument stand up if my PC is running linux, or my Mac is running Windows?
Oh, you can run OS X on a PC too, by the way.
I’ve worked in the creative industry for many years and used both PC and Mac and if I’m being honest they both do pretty much the same job in pretty much the same amount of time.
I’ve never had a problem with a PC (firewalls etc keep me safe) and I’ve never had a problem with a Mac.
I do however have a problem with both Apple and Microsoft.
Microsoft for being a great big ugly corporation with all the associated nastiness that comes with it and Apple for being a less big ugly corporation with all the same nastiness.
However, a PC can be up and running in no time for peanuts and so brings computing to those who may not otherwise be able to afford it (see Dell or other discount producers). On the other hand a Mac is a lifestyle choice for those who can afford it (see any Apple advertising).
“Cool” people buy Macs for no other reason than they look good.
If Apple really wanted a slice of the action they would let me easily build my own Mac with off the shelf parts (isn’t that what killed Commodore which was better than PC and Mac).
Like I said I use both PC and Mac daily and have no preference, but I wish Mac wouldn’t be so holier than thou and the iSheep flock would show some humility to the PC peasants (and like someone else mentioned - admit it’s just a posh PC these days.)
…and don’t get me started on the iPod/iTunes thing.
I moved over to Mac OSX 18 months ago, after being a windows user since the world cooled and the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
I am not a computer geek, neither am I a big “gamer” (i prefer fresh air and daylight), but what i did find was that i lost all of the annoying activities and general waiting around (for re-starts etc) that windows based PC’s made me do, i was so delighted with the PowerBook G4 i had, when it came to buying a home computer, i bought an iMac…love at first sight!!
I started a new job recently and had to take on a Windows XP laptop and it feels like a step back into the dark ages, it is slow, needs restarting regularly, virus updates all the time and struggles with multiple applications being open….i truly hate it, it’s a bit like having a rather plain, overweight, judgemental (”you have performed an illegal operation”) and annoying girlfriend (Windows), as well as a foxy, well built, sympathetic mistress who can and will do almost anything for you…..difficult choice!!
I know i sound a bit liek a reformed smoker banging on about the benefits of clean air, but that is the difference i noticed….i will buy th iPhone when it comes out….and the iTurd as well….Steve Jobs could sell me anything right now!!
If PC and Macs were people, this would all be considered racist…
to quote -
“come on
You are an absolute moron.
Office runs on a Mac (The fact that word and excel are originally mac apps, and pcs run ported versions makes you look very stupid too), Photoshop runs on a Mac, Illustrator runs on the Mac, LabView runs on the Mac, Final Cut, for a home user Apple bundle just about all the software you need…. need i go on?
As for linux, have you even looked at the ubuntu distros? easy to install, and add packages, and runs really well.
Come on, list a bit of software that has a large user base that doesn’t run on mac.
idiot
**********************
I play GAMES, something mac’s don’t do easily, therefore a mac is not suitable for me but if people wish to use it is their choice.
I am just pointing out that as it currrently stands for a lot of people windows pc’s have a far wider range of software . I have never seen a mac software section in a non computer shop and probably won’t for some time.
I built my pc for a lot less than the cost of a Mac and I have never have problems with it as I am carreful about what I do and I don’t chose to wander into the slightly darker areas of the internet just because it’s free etc
I have looked at unbutu but again it is inconvenient to have to use dual boot just to play games and awakward to run in a family environment especially when my kids and partner use ms at other locations
and quoted from wikipedia -
‘Microsoft Word, or Microsoft Office Word, is Microsoft’s flagship word processing software. It was first released in 1983 under the name Multi-Tool Word for Xenix systems.[1] Versions were later written for several other platforms including IBM PCs running DOS (1983), the Apple Macintosh (1984), SCO UNIX, OS/2 and Microsoft Windows (1989). ‘
although you were correct about excel
>>>Come on, list a bit of software that has a large user base that doesn’t run on mac.
Visual Studio.NET
Hi Fred!
Your blog is excellent — I linked to your post from my blog, Get Off Microsoft [http://www.tonybove.com/getoffmicrosoft/blog/].
There is the question of Vista’s touted security. Webroot Software, as reported in The Guardian (”Virus warnings as Microsoft launches Vista” by Bobbie Johnson), announced that the new Windows Defender program failed to block 84% of viruses — including 15 of the most common pieces of malicious code. In any case, people who want to upgrade from Windows XP to Vista to improve security are in for a sticker shock. Only Windows Vista Ultimate — the most expensive edition — offers the maximum level of protection. Will the less expensive editions offer enough protection? Microsoft stands to gain from the confusion.
[...] I wrote a few days ago in my post “Mac vs. PC: 23 Years Later†we met at Robert’s house to discuss the merits of Windows Vista vs. Mac OSX with Harry [...]
[...] invited four geeks, representing both sides of the OS aisle. First is Fred Davis, co-founder of Wired Magazine. Second is Harry McCracken, editor in chief of PC World. Third is Sam [...]
[...] way, did his best impression of a Mac zealot (though a rational one, if that makes any sense). Fred Davis, who co-founded Wired Magazine, seemed to be the voice of reason, advocating for both OS X and [...]
Neil in post 126 states you can run OS X on a PC. Maybe but not legally. If Apple did allow this I would be switching today. I run XP and couldn’t believe that MS wanted £140 to upgrade to Vista.
Ross Brown:
You did it! The calm clarity (yes, you can sense “calm” in a place like this) with which you made your case finally sealed the deal for me. I am just a girl, definitely not a “techie”, who writes and does a little creative dabbling but mostly, just writes and does tons of internet research and uses MS office on her dying little Dell. I have to buy a new computer, and with all the Vista rumors out there, I was interested in the Mac, but have never used one. I was attracted to the Mac for the security issues, because I just don’t want to have to jump through hoops to secure my computer, and keep it that way. I want to turn it on and go, and I think most people feel that way. I am sick of my Dell crashing and taking forever to do things, especially where it concerns my prized “Itunes” library. I have been tirelessly researching this whole “Mac v. PC” issue, often feeling just about nauseous with all the mud-slinging, and desperate for good user-based facts and persuasive arguments. Thanks, you helped clarify the real issues and dealt with my questions and worries nicely. Now I feel more informed.
All my life I’ve been a PC user.
I spent a lot of that time ignoratly dismissing Macs because they couldn’t play all the games PC’s could.
Through the course of XP’s life I started to realize that I was spending way way way to much time fixing stuff and dealing with problems that I shouldn’t have to. I started to build up a resentment of Microsoft and even started hating computers in general.
Vista was approaching and I was seriously thinking about whether I should bother with it and considering jumping ship to a Mac.
Part of me hoped Vista would solve all my dilemmas with PCs
I did a lot of reading and comparing and thinking and talking and eventually reached the conclusion that my next computer would be a Mac.
BUT
I ended up getting a steal of a deal on Vista Ultimate 64bit and my expensive, custom -built PC was definately up to the hardware requirments. I bought Vista and installed it.
Wow do I regret it!
Since installing Vista, my high powered computer is now running MUCH slower,
the CD/DVD drives no longer work properly,
The screensaver/power management settings corrupts my display and requires a hard-boot to recover from.
Startup and Shutdown times are astronomical
Network sharing/security is unstaisfactory.
Driver problems galore.
Have I mentioned this was a clean, full installlation and only has had 2-3 programs installed. (Canon Scanner software, Photoshop, Firefox, and iTunes)
This computer already feels like a five year old install of XP that’s ready for a hardware upgrade and a reinstall and it’s fresh!!!
I’m sick of this! I’ve had it.
I’m switching.
I will sink no more money or time into dealing with these PC problems. I’m not fooling myself into believing Macs are completely problem free but I know they’re definately a lot LESS problem filled than PCs. I’ve seen the light and I can’t wait to get me a Mac and a PS3
I won’t look back.
Now I just have to save up some money.
[...] invited four geeks, representing both sides of the OS aisle. First is Fred Davis, co-founder of Wired Magazine. Second is Harry McCracken, editor in chief of PC World. Third is Sam [...]
Hello
Very interesting information! Thanks!
G’night